Balance & Beyond Podcast

Coach Jaclyn joins us to explore a profound question: How can working mothers find true balance without falling into the burnout trap?

This episode tackles the societal pressures that demand women to excel in dual roles—professionally and as mothers—without missing a beat. We unravel the pervasive narrative of working as if you’re not a parent, and parenting like you don’t work. This expectation leads to a split identity, contributing to feelings of overwhelm and exhaustion. Together, we shine a light on the cultural forces that fuel perfectionism and a relentless mental load. By understanding these dynamics, women can begin to build emotional resilience, process emotions effectively, and prioritise self-care, guiding them toward a more fulfilling life.

Our conversation moves toward the development of self-leadership and the necessity of flexible self-care, especially in the absence of traditional communal support. Many women experience the challenge of finding their voice, seeking validation, and setting boundaries—often leading to disconnection and burnout. Jaclyn shares insights into how cultivating self-trust and asserting personal needs can lead to empowerment and community transformation. We aim to inspire women to break free from cultural norms by embracing a balanced and self-caring lifestyle. It's time to redefine success and well-being on your own terms, creating a ripple effect that not only strengthens individual women but also empowers entire communities.

Episode Transcript

INTRO: Welcome to Balance and Beyond, the podcast for ambitious women who refuse to accept burnout as the price of success. Here, we’re committed to empowering you with the tools and strategies you need to achieve true balance, where your career, relationships and health all thrive, and where you have the power to define success on your own terms. I honour the space you’ve created for yourself today, so take a breath, and let's dive right in…

Jo Host

Welcome to today's episode, where I am joined by Coach Jaclyn, and we're talking about all things “burnout” and “motherhood”. Welcome, Jaclyn! 

Jaclyn Guest

Hi, happy to be here!

Jo Host

Great topic, yeah! One that's very close to our heart. With my 14 and 11 year old, and your two and a half year old, you still count halves. 

Jaclyn Guest

Yeah, almost two and a half, that's right! 

Jo Host

Almost two and a half years old! And really understanding: What are some of the, I guess you would say, warning signs or drivers of burnout, that happen when you add parenthood — or motherhood — onto everything else that we're juggling?

One of the largest cohorts we see coming to us is often women off the back of parental leave. It becomes an interesting piece and we'll talk about that. But there is just something unique that happens when you add children into life, especially when you're working. It's a whole different dynamic. 

So, it’s really important that we shed light on what is happening and, most importantly, how you can ensure that you have the balance, and the fulfillment in life that we seek. That you seek, I should say. So, Jaclyn, a couple of key trends we really want to call out today, and one is the, you could say, cultural impact of being a mother. 

What do you see? What would be, say, one of the biggest cultural elements that impact how we act, or how we behave as a mother? And how can this also fuel and lead to burnout? 

Jaclyn Guest

Yeah. I think it's really common for mums to face this impossible expectation of being everything to everyone. And that really is amplified in motherhood, right? Because you're responsible for this human being, which is a lot. And so I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I have to be everything and do everything for this human being!” And well, that's just impossible, right? 

So, it just really gets that internal perfectionist agitated and doubling down. And then, when we go back into the workforce, we've got this flare up of perfectionism. But, while we are back at work, we still have this constant inadequacy, or feeling like we're not enough. Like that's the ugly part of perfectionism, right? It's like this: ”I gotta be perfect, because I never feel like I'm enough.”

I think that's where we, you know, we talk about this in our work with our clients. ”Is that where that perfectionism comes from?” This place of: “Am I enough?” “Am I enough?” ”Am I enough?” “I don't feel like I'm enough.” ”I'm never enough.” And it's really painful and it's really exhausting and society perpetuates this. 

It's almost like, lauded. Like, ”The mum who can do everything.” And when we say, you know, “You can do it all!” That’s not what we're saying, right? We're saying that, ”You don't have to choose between being a mum and a professional.” That you can have balance. But society says, “Yeah, you can do all those things!” But then, ”You’ve gotta be the best at all those things!” 

And that's where I think that we're teaching a different narrative: That you get to do all the things that are really important and meaningful to you, but you don't have to be stuck in this perfectionistic, proving narrative. 

Jo Host

Yeah. And it's that narrative that you have to parent like you don't work and work like you're not a parent. And that's continually denying one half of ourselves. And this is why so many women feel split in two, and this conditioning can run really, really deep, can't it? In terms of “We have to be perfect.” “Our worth is only based on how much we can do!” 

And, of course, when you add one — or multiple humans — into the mix, there's a lot more to do! There’s a lot more washing, there's a lot more logistics, there's a lot more life admin, and so that can really drown us really, really fast!

Jaclyn Guest

Oh my gosh, absolutely! The busyness of our lives, kids, anxiety, like the never ending to-do list, and never ending laundry, and all of that never-ending-ness, again paired with that perfectionism, is just a ripe combination for burnout, for overwhelm. Because, not only are you always failing, but then you never really get the satisfaction of completing anything. Cause it, those lists never end.

Like, that's the nature of motherhood. Like it never ends, the laundry never ends, the to-do list never ends. Yeah, so like, all these ingredients really create, really perfect ground, I guess I should say, for burnout and overwhelm. Yeah. 

Jo Host

That good old mental load that we've heard so much about is all pervasive. As you said, these things are in cycles, and they never end! So you can never get on top of the washing. And we — the perfectionist in us — wants to get to some convoluted place where: all the washing is done, and put away, and the fridge is full, the meals are prepped, the kitchen bench is clean, everybody is fed, everyone's relaxed, and then maybe I'll do something for myself. 

Like, it's nuts, isn't it? And so much of this is that cultural and societal conditioning that we don't realise is driving so much of our behavior. Because it feels so real to us. 

Jaclyn Guest

Yeah, it makes me nauseous. Really, it's such a losing game, yeah. So, I'm glad that we're doing something about that and shaking up that almost just so widely accepted. It just feels like it's the only reality that's possible and I love the work we do!

Jo is saying but that's stupid, let's not do that, because we're just getting sick over here and burning out like quite literally sick right. A lot of the women who come to us are experiencing burnout symptoms mentally, but also physiologically. So it's important that we're having those conversations. 

Jo Host

Absolutely, absolutely. The other piece that I think is really important to bring to this conversation, when we are so stretched. And there is a massive list and there are people who literally, life or death, it all depends on us! Showing up is something that we're not very good at and we've never been taught how to do. 

It's something that is very pink-washed. It is not considered a skill, it's considered an indulgence. Yes, what am I talking about, Jaclyn, and what is so important? That we actually build the muscle in, which is one of your favorite things to talk about. 

Jaclyn Guest

It is. It really is because it's the antidote to all this craziness—all this, you know, “illness-creating” that we're doing. We need to take care of our well-being. And so, I like to talk about self-care. You know, we've mentioned this in other episodes, but it's certainly applicable here—the four different aspects of our self-care. And each of those areas involves developing a skill.

So, self-care isn't an indulgence. It's not, I don't know, something frivolous that you get to when everything else is done. It's actually the first thing, really. It's taking care of your well-being. Because what's the point of trying to dot all those I's, cross all the T's, be perfect, and complete the never-ending to-do list—which, again, is impossible—if we're just sick? Like, what? Why? What are we living for? That’s such a bizarre way to live.

So, yes, I'm just so passionate about taking care of yourself first in those four areas. I'll come back to that—the four areas, like your mental health, right? We're talking about your mindset, your internal monologue. How do you talk to yourself? Are you mean to yourself? Most perfectionists are. We're really, really mean to ourselves.

Jo Host

Pretty mean—really, actually quite brutal, I would say. Not just mean—so many women are brutal to themselves. The criticism, the comparison, everything!

Jaclyn Guest

Oh my gosh, it's, yeah, it's a killer. It kills you. Constantly belittling yourself, questioning your self-worth, and always focusing on where you're falling short or what you're doing wrong—like, yeah.

Our mental health and wellness are so important. Following close on the heels of that is our emotional health, which is connected but separate. Mental health is more about our thoughts, internal narratives, how we talk to ourselves, what we think, and the beliefs we hold.

Then there are emotions—again, closely related—but this is about our ability to sit with grief, anger, and other feelings, actually experiencing them without getting stuck in the drama triangle. I think most people relate to emotions from the drama triangle. We talk about being either a victim, a blamer (someone who blames others), or a martyr/rescuer. And, let’s be honest—we're good at complaining. 

Women, especially, are really good at complaining. It's the only socially accepted way to express our feelings, right? We just, you know, bitch about things with our friends or coworkers or whatever. And I get that—there’s a time and place for it.

But what I’m trying to say is that if we go several steps further and actually feel our real feelings underneath all the griping, whinging, and complaining, we’ll find a lot of pain. And that’s probably why we don’t go there. But that’s also why it’s a skill. Yeah, it hurts—the mental rewiring of beliefs, the process of facing emotions, and actually feeling those painful emotions in a healthy way. Those are skills.

Jo Host

So, those are just two of the four, and they’re skills—just to emphasize that. Skills we were never taught. So many women have gotten really good at suppressing their feelings because I don’t have time for this. Or they’re so full and so blocked that they’re terrified that if they lose it, they’ll be in a puddle for days. There’s so much inside them that it’s overwhelming.

And when we first start telling women, You’re going to start defrosting, the reaction is What? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don’t have time to fall apart. Have you seen my to-do list?

A big part of what has to happen—and, as you said, it’s really, really important. Jaclyn said it before, and I’m going to say it again—this is a skill that very few people are taught. Most people can’t even name their emotions, let alone process them or feel them.

Jaclyn Guest

Yeah, and working with your emotions then helps rewire those beliefs that keep you feeling limited and small. And it’s beautiful once you start doing that work—which is why we focus on it so much with our clients, right? It’s heavy, deep emotional and mental work to truly free people up and liberate all this energy that’s been stuck and contracted. We’ve been contorting ourselves to be these perfect moms who can do everything and be everything—but never attend to ourselves.

Jo Host

It's just crazy, yeah. So, what are the other two? What are the other two muscles or skills we need to learn? Just to recap, if you haven’t listened to previous episodes on self-care.

Jaclyn Guest

So, the next one is physical fitness, which is probably the one people are most familiar with, right? Everyone knows about exercise and the good endorphins that come from it, as well as good nutrition.

But we still put it on the back burner. We forget to eat, forget to drink water, and tell ourselves we don’t have time to move. Or we think the only way to do it is perfectly—so we only exercise when we have 40 minutes to do the whole class or the full workout.

Yeah, so learning how to incorporate micro-doses of these things we already know to do—and actually giving ourselves permission to do them—is something really important. That’s a big part of what we support our clients with.

Jo Host

Um, yeah. And then, lastly, there’s one that most women say they don’t have time for—something that, again, gets put in the indulgence category but, ironically, is what most women are craving more than anything else. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Just good, old-fashioned fun.

Jaclyn Guest

I know. 

Jo Host

The different f-word.

Jaclyn Guest

For sure, it’s a dangerous word—fun, pleasure, nourishment—the things that bring you joy. When’s the last time you did something for pure enjoyment? Those hobbies that get pushed to the back burner, like the last time you went out dancing or the last time you picked up a canvas and threw some paint on it.

Your creativity really is a connection to your aliveness, your expression as women. And for so many of our clients, it’s such a joy to see them pull out their tap shoes…

Jo Host

True story—just happened, right?

Jaclyn Guest

We have clients who do that—it's a true story, yeah. We have clients who decided to go back to their passion for art and even leave a job to pursue what makes them feel most alive. Not that everyone has to go to that extent, but it's about giving yourself permission to put it on the calendar and say, There’s actually a time when I get to go dancing—just to feel good in my body, feel alive.

And I think what can really stop us, particularly when there are kids involved (and obviously, this can differ depending on the age of the kids), is the belief that, to your point, it has to be 45 minutes.

Jo Host

It has to be this way, but how do you not? If you have kids, they are your best guide for fun. Oh yeah, they are your best guide for processing emotions because they don’t learn to suppress them until they're about six or seven. They don’t have a filter, so you know exactly what’s going on in their heads.

So, while everyone’s like, You mean you want me to be a toddler again? Sometimes, yeah. Right? They move—they understand what their body needs. When they’re hungry, they get grumpy and need food. It’s just so fascinating how kids actually have all of this instinctive wisdom, but then it gets beaten out of us.

As adults, we then have to go on this journey of rediscovering our inner toddler. You know, sometimes your banana breaks in half, and you really wanted that banana, and you’d love to throw your arms around and cry because you wanted a banana that wasn’t broken.

Jaclyn Guest

Totally. Yeah, they feel it. Yep, I love how... yeah, just thinking about how there aren’t usually two-year-olds running around with depression, anxiety, or burnout. I mean, you know, there are always things we can contend with when it comes to the littles, but they don’t have chronic issues, right? Because they’re not building up all this contraction or contortion in their bodies yet, right? Society hasn’t gotten its claws into them yet.

Jo Host

And they’re, on the whole, most kids are pretty happy, you know? They live pretty simple lives, they sleep pretty well, they—so there’s something to be said for reigniting that side of us and bringing that back. So, if we... I guess the other thing I was going to say around self-care is that we can use the kids as an excuse. For many women, being labeled selfish, particularly moms, is often a weapon thrown at us.

You never want to be selfish, but if you can find ways to do this—either with your kids or by swapping with a friend, like I'll take your kids on this day, you take mine—how can you get creative with ways to fit this in? Whether it’s those micro doses, or if the kids are in the bath (if they’re little), you can take five minutes to go do some journaling. 

If that’s something you need to do for your mental health, it doesn’t always have to be the four-hour, half-day thing. I need a sitter. Well, I don’t have any care. I don’t want to pay for a sitter. Yeah, there are ways around this that fit into snack-sized care when you know how to do it well, regardless of your physical or logistical circumstances.

Jaclyn Guest

Yep, totally, and I'm glad you brought up that idea of trading with friends too, because we don't have to get into this too deeply. But the part of the problem, I think, with modern-day parenthood is this loss of tribe or loss of community—like communal child-rearing. It takes a village, and we’ve lost the village. We’ve lost the village, and so it falls on mom and dad, as two people only, to carry the load.

Then there’s still, like, the traditional expectations that are usually imbalanced, especially around carrying the mental load. That’s a whole other conversation. There are all these other, you know, off-shooting conversations we could save for another time, but I’m glad you brought it up because that’s another thing that contributes to burnout for women—not having enough support. 

Whether it’s figuring out how to balance the mental load at home with your spouse or having resources communally, so you don’t have to carry the world on your shoulders. Really, yeah.

Jo Host

Yeah, and I guess that brings us to the last piece, which can really exacerbate burnout—and this is probably a topic for a whole other episode in the future. But, Jaclyn, a common thread of what stops women from doing things like taking care of their mental health or taking care of themselves is that they haven’t yet developed their own voice or their own sense of connection to self to actually ask for what they want.

So, they’re not in that self-leadership space. They’re looking for permission. You know, they’re outsourcing their boundaries to someone else. Let’s talk a little bit about how we can learn to communicate and develop that really strong connection to self, so we can overcome all of these challenges and not burn out.

Jaclyn Guest

Well, yeah, we call it listening to your inner voice or internal authority, or different forms of self-trust. And honestly, all of the self-care we just talked about helps develop that, because in all those aspects of self-care, you're putting a lot of attention on your wellbeing. So, it’s permission to prioritize yourself.

And as we prioritize ourselves, we get lighter emotionally, right? Our nervous system starts to feel more grounded through the self-care work I was just talking about, and our inner monologue becomes friendlier. Our bodies start to feel stronger and more nourished, we’re having more fun, and feeling more alive.

All those four components of self-care cultivate more trust in ourselves, right? We unconsciously break trust with ourselves because we don’t take care of ourselves—we abandon ourselves, essentially, through lack of self-care. It’s self-abandonment. That’s what it is. I’ll just say it.

Jo Host

And it's abandonment in terms of those ruthless expectations we hold of ourselves, the way we beat ourselves up, the way we feel torn, the way we feel like we're failing at everything. All of that just makes us completely disconnected.

And if you've ever had that feeling of being empty or feeling alone despite never actually being alone, those are signs that you're disconnected from who you really are. Maybe you don’t know what you want, you don’t know what you like, and you don’t know what fun is.

Jaclyn Guest

Again, some warning signs that maybe this applies to you, yeah? And this can be sobering and maybe a little heavy, so, you know, be graceful with yourself, because that’s the modern-day conundrum we’re in. We have these binds and limitations of society, and then we’re expected to still operate like superhumans—and it just doesn’t add up. The math doesn’t make sense.

So, losing ourselves and experiencing burnout and overwhelm is a logical conclusion. It’s an epidemic, right? Like...Every woman has really experienced it, usually at some point or another. For our work, we focus on the individual, because that's where you can get your personal power back. We focus on how you can get your self-trust back, your connection to yourself, your aliveness, your wellness back. And then, maybe, we'll turn our eyes to punching some holes into some cultural issues. But those are pretty big, right?

Jo Host

We occasionally try, here and there, but as you said, my view is that I’d rather empower thousands of women individually to have a huge ripple effect in their families, in their communities, in their workplaces. And then through women who are strong enough to speak up, to hold boundaries, to be living, walking, talking examples of a new way to live.

Then we start to see... you know, they say that you can't be what you can't see. Well, we need more and more women who are living this life, who are taking care of themselves, who are sharing it beyond bubble baths, who are prioritizing themselves. And in my mind, that’s the way we start to break down the cultural piece. We have to do it one woman at a time, and we make each woman stronger.

That's not to say that we're broken, that's not to say that we've done anything wrong, but the world we live in requires different skills that very, very few of us have been taught, and motherhood just adds that layer of complexity. It's a new range of conditioning, and it really becomes more and more important because, you know, the kids can take time.

So usually, we see people become mothers and their self-care plummets because now all the cultural conditioning kicks in, even if they used to take really good care of themselves pre-kids. Maybe they were athletes, or they did Pilates, and then the kids come, and it’s like, whoa, no, no—I’m now at the bottom of the list because that’s what it takes to be a good mother.

So this is why this is such an important conversation to have, Jaclyn. If you are a mom, a stepmom, an auntie, or you’re in the community, then this is key. We really want you to understand that you can overcome these cultural issues. You have a tribe who is willing to help, if you can find a way to ask for it.

We need you to develop your muscles in self-care, making sure you’re able to take care of yourself. And then, finally, with all of this, let’s cultivate that innocence of self-trust and get you reconnected to who you really are, Jaclyn. Any final words for our listeners today?

Jaclyn Guest

No, I mean, just—that's what we do. We support you in developing those skills, and we also give you the community to do it with. There’s so much momentum in the community, and it’s highly, highly underestimated. I spoke about this briefly, like how we’re missing a tribe, but we have an amazing tribe here. So I think developing those skills as individuals within a community is crucial and such a powerful vitamin. So, for those listening, we welcome you.

Jo Host

Thanks, Jaclyn. It’s been lovely to have you and such an important conversation. We’ll see you again on Balance & Beyond.

Jaclyn Guest

Thanks Jo. 

OUTRO: Thank you for joining us today on the Balance and Beyond Podcast. We're so glad you carved out this time for yourself. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who might need to hear this today. And if you're feeling extra generous, leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice would mean the world. If you’re keen to dive deeper into our world, visit us at www.balanceinstitute.com to discover more about the toolkit that has helped thousands of women avoid burnout and create a life of balance, and beyond. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on the Balance & Beyond Podcast.