Balance & Beyond Podcast

What if the loyalty you hold dear is the very thing holding you back from your dreams?

Join our Mindset Coach Sabina and Jo as we unpack the hidden chains of loyalty that impact both our personal and professional lives. Through personal stories and client experiences, we reveal how loyalty, particularly in the workplace, can subconsciously hinder individuals, especially women, from recognising their worth and voicing their needs. This episode invites you to re-evaluate your own notions of loyalty and how they may be subtly influencing your life.

Ever felt like your own worst enemy when it comes to your career? We dive into how self-sabotage and limiting beliefs prevent many from seeking the recognition and growth they deserve. Our conversation highlights the pervasive issue of self-comparison and the fear of judgement, particularly how these factors can make people feel undeserving of professional success. We also touch on the intricate dynamics of family loyalty and its impact on career aspirations, encouraging a shift in perspective where success is seen as a collective benefit rather than a zero-sum game.

Transitioning from stable jobs to entrepreneurship can feel like walking a tightrope without a safety net. In this episode, we discuss the significance of self-awareness in recognising and overcoming self-sabotaging behaviours. Learn how breaking old patterns can lead to greater abundance, joy, and fulfilment. Finally, we guide you on a transformative journey to move beyond burnout and outdated self-versions. With the right tools and guidance, it's time to break those chains and embrace new possibilities for a richer, more joyful life.

Episode Transcript

INTRO: Welcome to Balance and Beyond, the podcast for ambitious women who refuse to accept burnout as the price of success. Here, we’re committed to empowering you with the tools and strategies you need to achieve true balance, where your career, relationships and health all thrive, and where you have the power to define success on your own terms. I honour the space you’ve created for yourself today, so take a breath, and let's dive right in…

Jo Host

Today, we are talking about chains, and we are talking about the chains that actually keep us stuck. Whether we realise it or not, there are a range of forces that hold us back in life. And today I've got Sabina joining me. Welcome, Sabina! 

Sabina Guest

Hello Jo, nice to be back with you!

Jo Host

Yes, and today we are talking about “loyalty”. It's a word that is bandied around a lot, but it's also a word that I think is quite misunderstood. So, today, we're talking about loyalty and how this, whether you know it or not, whether you're conscious of it or not, could be something that's really, really holding you back. So, Sabina, talk to me about the word “loyalty.” It can be loaded, it can be really important to many people. What's going on with that word? 

Sabina Guest

Yeah, well, I think it's something that is very close to our hearts. Particularly as women. And it can have both positive and negative connotations. Now, I'm not talking about this from the point of view of matrimonial vows of loyalty, although that could be the case. But, something that I've really noticed over my career is our relationship with how loyal we are to people, circumstances, and employers. And yeah, as I said, we're sometimes conscious of it, and sometimes not.

It can be like an invisible chain that keeps you stuck from feeling deserving of admitting to yourself what you want, or claiming what you want, and it can be incredibly subtle but very, very powerful. And I hear different flavours of this issue through the many, many conversations that I have with clients, and I think it's something that's really important to talk about, to shine a light of consciousness on it, yeah.

Jo Host

And these vows, as you said, can show up in many places. What's one place that you think is perhaps the most common, or the most limiting? Let's say, I mean, I'm sure there are many, but where's one place you see it kicking in most? 

Sabina Guest

Yeah, it's fascinating how often women don't speak up for what they want, because they don't feel deserving. But, when you unpick it, there can be these vows or beliefs that attach their level of deservingness and success, to what's going on for others around them. 

So it might be, “I don't dare ask for a promotion or a REM review because, you know, my colleague in accounts has been here longer than me, and she's really up for promotion” or “She's working really hard, and I don't really feel right asking.” 

You know, it's this constant comparison of yourself against your worth with that of your colleagues. “I'm not really doing a good enough job.” Even though a part of you knows damn well that, you know, you've put in the work, you've produced the results. It's time for your performance review, and you still don't speak up. It's time for your performance review, and you still don't speak up. And sometimes we're aware of what's holding us back, but sometimes we're not. 

So, asking yourself the question, you know, “Who do I think might judge me?” “Would I appear to people that I don't really deserve it?” “What would people say?” Or “Who do I think might be positively or negatively affected, if I get more success, more money, more ease?” And we're often not conscious of this, and so we don't even put ourselves in the picture, or put our hands up to put our hats in the ring. So, comparing yourself to colleagues thinking that, you know, they've done a better job than you. That's a classic one. 

It also happens, you know, in terms of asking for professional development support. And our coaching program is sometimes very well embraced by employers. But we also find that women don't even ask if there's a professional development budget available. Because they think, “Oh, if I get, you know, some money put towards my development, then someone else misses out.” And that's a zero sum game. 

Jo Host

Yeah, I was going to say that what that reminded me of, is that whole belief system that there's never enough to go around, and that if you take some, then you're taking away from somebody else, that you mentioned. And it's this constant putting everybody else before you, without realising that, “Actually, if I win, and I take the professional development budget, or I get the promotion, or I get the pay rise, or go on that project, what if everybody else around me also wins?”

I find even when I've had women come to me, and they've been given generous pay rises, only to freak out about, “Oh my gosh, they're going to find out how much I'm paid, they're going to think that I've now become this head honcho, and this snob, and they can't relate to me anymore, and I'm going to lose my friends at work, because they now find out that I've got this big promotion. 

So, we completely hold ourselves back in a strange vow of loyalty, almost to being equal with everybody else. I don't know what it is, whether it's like you mentioned this “comparison-itis.” But, it's also this vow of, “I don't want to rise above.” “I want to be the same as everybody else.” Because, perhaps thinking out loud here, being the same is safe. If you were to ask for the pay rise, or get a promotion, you're going to be different to everybody else. 

Sabina Guest

Well, that's right. There's that, I mean. There's so many different flavours. It's endlessly fascinating. “I don't want to shine too bright, because I don't want to make anyone else feel less than.” “If I shine too bright, the spotlight will be on me, and then there's even more pressure.” “And what if people find out that, or think, that I'm not worth it?” Oh, you know that's got a bit of an ouch to it. “I don't want other people to miss out.” And, you know, they're just as worthy as me, or more worthy. 

So, it's all these perceived judgments, or worries, that are like these vows and chains that stop us from thinking, “Well, actually, if I allow myself to develop, or receive more, what else could I share with others, if I develop myself?” The reality is that everybody in my sphere gets to benefit. There's a totally different way of thinking about it. 

So, you know, some of those thoughts are conscious, some are subconscious. But, that's just in the workplace, Jo. You know, it applies in so many different facets of life. It could be in your social group. “Will I, you know, appear to be too flashy, if I get, you know, help at home?” “Or if I upgrade my car?” I mean, I'm talking about material things. This isn't the only issue. 

But, is there a part of you that is secretly worried that you will no longer be part of your group, and there will be judgments? You know, might you lose something that feels really valuable to you? Perhaps a sense of belonging? You know, if things start to get easier for you, or you get more success, more happiness, more reward, more love, whatever it is. 

It doesn't have to be in the workplace. And then also, you know the place, which I find absolutely fascinating, and this is from a personal point of view. Do you have vows of loyalty towards your family of origin? You know, namely your family. 

Jo Host

This comes up particularly in the case of wealth and success, doesn't it? 

Sabina Guest

Absolutely. And what's interesting, there can either be this you know, commitment, vow, whatever you want to call it to, “Never move too far from the baseline of what's acceptable in your family.” “To stay loyal, or to totally rebel against it, and I'm never going to be like that.” “Watch me.” I'll share a story, if I can, about how this became very relevant in my life. 

So, you know I'm English, and I had two immigrant parents. You know, my mum was from Europe, my dad was from Asia, and they were very, very intelligent. Very, very capable people. But, they came over to England in the 60s, and they never got a break. They just were in a struggling town for years, and years, and years, and I was a top achiever. 

I went to uni, got a top grade, and by the time I was 24, I was already earning more than they did when they retired. I was working for one of the world's top branding agencies, working in new business development, and I was rocking it, not only in terms of my family, but also my friendship group. Some of my friends were still travelling, having a great time. And I was, you know, rising through the ranks. 

And on the one hand, it felt amazing. But, deep down, something wasn't sitting with me so well. It was like this, you know, grain of sand that was just, “Oh, something didn't sit right.” And I managed to, you know, sabotage my success there. And I had a couple of repeated patterns. And when I say sabotage, I ended up overworking so much, and overachieving so much, to prove to myself that I was worthy of having this level of success. And, of course, I burnt myself out. That's what I mean by “self-sabotage.” 

“It can't be this easy.” “I have to make it really hard for myself.” And I had this pattern a couple of times, until I actually stopped, and did some self-inquiry and went, “Huh, what's underneath this?” “I'm too embarrassed to tell my parents how well I'm doing.” “I don't tell my friends what's happening.” “I actually feel really alone, because I would love to brainstorm and bounce ideas with my peers about what's happening in my career, and I'm not.” “Why am I not speaking about this?” 

And that led me through this path of self inquiry. Which was, deep down, I felt actually quite ashamed that my parents had worked their entire lives, and set up this. You know, very difficult life for themselves, moving abroad, and never getting a break. And here I was, at age 24, with so much ease. And so that's, you know, that's one of the ways that the vows of loyalty can play out. 

You know, are you subconsciously not wanting to rub anyone's face in your success? And the truth is, our parents want us to supersede where they were. They want us to do better and not create, you know, have the same struggles that they have. So, it's so important that we start to ask ourselves questions, “What judgments am I scared of?” “Whose opinion seems to matter so much?” And once you get underneath that, you get some really powerful insights. 

Jo Host

Yeah, we see this family of origin come up a lot, when we do money work. So when you start talking about your money blueprint, as you said, those vows of loyalty that are often completely subconscious come out in really, really interesting ways. And whether it's that loyalty, I know I grew up, my Dad's English, too. And it was all about hard work. Like, “We're a hardworking family, we're a hardworking family.” And it took a long time. 

Like you, things in my career were relatively easy. But, I would overcompensate for the fact that it was easy. Because, “It's not meant to be easy.” “Nothing in life comes easy, Jo.” “You have to work hard for everything!” That was very much the indoctrination that I had. They were our family values. But, ironically, my dad also came up, very much through the ranks. My dad started off as an electrician, and ended up running the company. So, he came through the ranks. 

But, he had this whole, “Well, I was always an electrician, and never had a degree.” And so, I came up with a father who was also trying to prove himself, and had a loyalty to his parents that were very working class. And so, this is how this work becomes generational. We just hold on to these ties. And then my dad very much superseded his parents very quickly, and he had a lot of challenges with that. 

I know he used to send money back to his parents, and that can feel really guilty. Like, “Do I have to?” “Oh my gosh, I'm a child taking care of my parents.” “What?’ That's not necessarily how it's meant to be. And so, if we don't, what I love in your story, which I'm sure came with a lot of fun and a lot of heartache, is how we sabotage our success. 

If we're not aware of it, you will find patterns, and we see this all the time, these patterns of burnout. “Well, I can't be too successful.” And in Australia “tall-poppy syndrome” runs deep. And that can be a loyalty to the collective culture. A loyalty to how we do things. I certainly felt my mum was a stay-at-home mum, and it was really tricky for me to do. 

You know, the amount of times she said to me when I was pregnant with my first, “Well, I know you say you want to go back to work, but when you have the baby, that'll all change, won't it?” And then it didn't. ‘Oh, I have my second kid.’ And she said, “Well, surely when you have two, things are going to change.” And it was really hard. Because, I know that she wanted me to have almost the life that she did. Because, that's what she wanted. And that's what she thought was best. 

So then, you almost have this vow to the sisterhood of, “That's how we do it.” And so, anyone who is bucking those vows, it can take really deep work. Otherwise, you know, for the first part of my parenting journey, I was guilty all the time. Because, I was doing it wrong. And, as you said, that all comes down to those pieces that are very much chained to our past, to our upbringing. And we will do whatever it takes, almost to honour those claims subconsciously. Even if it means sabotaging our wealth, our relationships, our joy, our peace, everything. It's nuts, isn't it? 

Sabina Guest

It is. It's so powerful. And it is possible to switch, and reframe the reality. You know, just one thing that resonated with me, with what you said is, it can be slightly lonely when you're setting out, or forging a new path, from your family of origin. You know, there's that guilt. But, also feeling slightly misunderstood. “I do want to go back to work with my second child, and I'm finding it hard.” “I don't want to say anything to you, Mum, because I know what you're going to say.” 

You're going to say, “Well, just be off work, darling.” It can be fraught. But, this is why having these conversations with women, who care about work, and who care about family, or whatever it is you care about. But, just having these conversations are so important, so that we give ourselves permission to talk about the challenges and the opportunities. 

Jo Host

Yeah. I think to me this is, you know, what we're trying to do here is almost build some new loyalties, to our future selves. Because, one of the things I know you mentioned, is your family of origin story. One of the things that I have constantly been working through, is I often will have loyalties to a past version of myself, that I don't relate to anymore. But, I haven't let go of whether it was goals, or judgments, or feelings of safety, and all this reared its head. 

When I started my own business, no one in my family had ever been an entrepreneur. That was, everybody had very secure jobs. It was all about the paycheck. Even my husband's family. It was all about, “Get a steady job” and “Be safe” and “Find a stable income.” And, “Oh gosh, you never want to be one of those crazy people that you know takes it all on themselves.” And, to your point, it does get really lonely. And so, what happens is, when we make those decisions, we've got no one else to hold on to. 

So, we create a whole stack of dreams, and goals, and aspirations, and hooks, and anchors, for that version of ourselves. But, when you hang around us long enough, you evolve a lot, and you evolve really quickly. And so, one of the biggest things I've had to do, and even our clients, we have to remind them, “Say, hang on a second?” “That doesn't sound like the new Sophie, that sounds like the old Sophie of two years ago!” And they go, “You're right!” 

Sabina Guest

Yeah. Or, “Whose voice is that in my head?” “Is it my voice?” “Is it my old voice?” “Is it my mum's voice?” “Is it my dad's voice?” It's just opening your awareness, so that you can have the possibility of thinking about something different. 

Jo Host

And that's where it all opens up, right? When you can realise, “Okay, this is a chain that's holding me back.” When you can get the tools to learn how to cut that free, as you said, the self-inquiry, the deep work. It's not just saying an affirmation, and it's going to go away. There are actual tools and strategies that you need to break these ties. 

But, when you do, my gosh, you get to break these patterns, because these patterns are there to teach us a lesson, and they keep coming around, and around, and around again. And I'm pretty sure, if I'd have had, not that I would have, but had six children. After every one, I would have wanted to go back to work. 

Like, no amount of babies was going to make me want to be a stay-at-home mother. As much as I love them, and as much as I love being with them, that's not my path. And so, I didn't have lots of babies. But you can stop, you know, those patterns. Whether it's changing jobs, whether it's burning out, whether it's the people pleasing, whatever it is, everyone has their own unique repertoire, if you will, of their self-sabotage programs. 

And what I love is that, you know, when you and I get on discovery calls with people, you often ask the question, “How long has this been going on?” “The whole proving myself?” And because they'll say, “Oh, it's the job.” “I've got to change the job.” And you go, “What about your last job?” And they go, “Oh, and what about, you know, at university?” “Oh, and what about at school?” “Oh, you mean, this is actually you, it's not the job.” 

Sabina Guest

Who's the common denominator here? We take ourselves with us when we go to different places. And that's the key to lasting transformation. When you understand yourself better, then you get to choose something different. And then, you take that with you through each job, through each promotion, and it opens up. 

Jo Host

It opens up so much, and I love that! That's when we open up. So much more abundance, and this is when we see people who are now ready to receive big pay rises. And we're talking, you know, 40%, 50%, 60% pay rises. And these are not $5,000 pay rises. We see huge levels of abundance, joy, and fulfilment, while working less. Because, we've broken the pattern of having to work to prove ourselves. 

So, they're so important, aren't they, Sabina? Any closing thoughts for someone who has recognised, “Oh, maybe I am loyal to my parents!” Or maybe, “I'm loyal to an old boss that I made a promise to.” Or maybe, anyone sitting there going, “Oh God, I've just seen something that I didn't know about before.” 

Sabina Guest

Yeah. And, well, not to make yourself wrong. It's not bad. Like, this level of awareness is great. But, just giving yourself permission to check in with, “You know what?” “Am I worried that I might lose?” Or, “Who might I worry that I'll lose, if things get easier for me?” And then, just gently question yourself, “Is that true?” “Do I know that that's true?” 

Jo Host

And that's what we want, right? It's not about just getting out of the “poo pond” or getting out of, you know, feeling burnt out, and exhausted. These become beautiful questions, when we give people our sort of “introductory toolkit” in those first 12 weeks. Then, they come out going, “Oh, I had no idea life could be this good.” I'm like, “Oh no, no, this is just the beginning.” 

This becomes a beautiful level of investigation of, “How can I make my life more joyful, and more fun, and more calm?” So, that's what we invite you to do. If you recognise some loyalties there, whether it's to an old version of you, to your mother, to your father, to your culture, to the sisterhood, and you're ready to break them. Then, we happen to know some good tools that can help you with that. 

So, make sure that you sign up to a discovery session. We'll put the link below the show notes, and we would love to help you uncover what's there, and let's break those chains once and for all. Thanks for joining me, Sabina! 

Sabina Guest

Thanks so much, Jo. 

OUTRO: Thank you for joining us today on the Balance and Beyond Podcast. We're so glad you carved out this time for yourself. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who might need to hear this today. And if you're feeling extra generous, leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice would mean the world. If you’re keen to dive deeper into our world, visit us at www.balanceinstitute.com to discover more about the toolkit that has helped thousands of women avoid burnout and create a life of balance, and beyond. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on the Balance & Beyond Podcast.