Balance & Beyond Podcast

Is mum guilt keeping you up at night?

Imagine a world where you could redefine what it means to be a good mum based on your values, not society's outdated expectations. Join us on Balance and Beyond as we tackle the heavy burden of mum guilt with our insightful guest, Jaclyn. Together, we explore the relentless societal pressures that force mothers into a frantic cycle of justifying their choices. By sharing our personal journeys, we illustrate how challenging these norms and embracing your own values can lead to a healthier, more balanced approach to motherhood.

We also delve into the crucial difference between guilt and regret, especially when it comes to prioritising yourself and balancing responsibilities. Jaclyn and Jo reveal how guilt often masks deeper, unmet values and discuss strategies to restore these values, fostering a positive emotional environment. 

We emphasise the importance of breaking free from habitual guilt to reclaim joy and presence in our lives. Tune in for practical advice on practising regret and restoration, and learn how to model healthier emotional responses for your children, paving the way for a more fulfilling journey through motherhood.

Episode Transcript

INTRO: Welcome to Balance and Beyond, the podcast for ambitious women who refuse to accept burnout as the price of success. Here, we’re committed to empowering you with the tools and strategies you need to achieve true balance, where your career, relationships and health all thrive, and where you have the power to define success on your own terms. I honour the space you’ve created for yourself today, so take a breath, and let's dive right in…

Jo Host

“Mum guilt.” Two words that shred fear into many, many women. I often say that we give birth, we have a child, and after the baby comes a heavy dose of “mum guilt.” So today we're talking about four main reasons that we have “mum guilt”, and I'm joined by the wonderful Jaclyn. Hi, Jaclyn! 

Jaclyn Guest

Hello, happy to be here talking about this really popular topic! For many women, like you said, and it is almost as if when in utero, when the baby is gestating, it's implanted, this “mum guilt” just kind of comes with the package. 

Jo Host

Yeah, and it's so pervasive, and it's so dangerous, and it permeates everything, right? Down to what you even do with yourself. Can you take care of yourself or not? It's just insidious. So let's talk, Jaclyn, about what actually causes this “mum guilt.” I guess to start off with, just in case, as somebody who doesn't know what “mum guilt” is, how would you define “mum guilt?” 

Jaclyn Guest

It's this heavy feeling, where you have to constantly justify your choices, or don't even give yourself permission to make those choices. These choices primarily involve prioritising yourself. So, you either feel heavy if you have chosen yourself, or you don't give yourself permission to, and it's just there's a lot of “dis-ease” around it. 

Jo Host

Absolutely. And, I'd add to that, that what it tends to do in us, and we'll talk about the reasons for this in a minute, but it really ends up with this, like you said, it's the heaviness. But, I also find that the guilt drives this franticness that can come with it. Because it's this, “I’ve got to try to get it all done, because if I'm not doing it all, then I'm not a good mum.” 

And it impacts us at work, and with the kids, and it's just everywhere. It causes a lot of proving, proving, and yeah, so much proving and, like I said, the moment we become a mother, there's also a lot of judgement about becoming a mother, and what that means. 

And I guess that brings us to reason number one. Like, why do we do this? Well, there are many, many reasons for guilt, but we very much are a believer in these four key ones. So, talk us through the first one, Jaclyn. Why and what's going on here? 

Jaclyn Guest

Yeah, I think there's a widespread, societally accepted expectation of moms to be perfect. To, you know, do all the things. To handle the home, to handle all the admin, handling the birthday gifts, what happens at school, make sure the kids have all the right food, all the right clothes, just everything falls on mum.

So, there's this high, high expectation, high pressure, and it's just accepted. It's not the same expectation of men. Even if we have partners who might be awesome, it doesn't change the fact that there's this pressure. Yeah, it's almost like a built in expectation of women. 

So, the first reason for “mum guilt” is that we kind of just accept it, or resign ourselves to that. Like, “Oh, this is just the expectation on me as a mum.” And we internalise it, and we hold this expectation for ourselves. Even we take that societal expectation, and then we put it on ourselves. 

So, the main reason, this first main reason, is that we haven't given ourselves permission to challenge that, that whole trope around the perfect mum. And so, the antidote really is to define what being an excellent mum, or the kind of mum you want to be, actually means to you. How do you define that? Which is going to be obviously challenging, changing those super high, unreasonable expectations.

Jo Host

Yeah, and I often say that, when it comes to being a parent, we're expected to parent like we don't work, and work like we're not a parent, particularly for women who are challenging the status quo, rising through the ranks at work, and wanting to kick big career goals. 

There aren't a lot of generations before us, who got to model what being a parent looks like, a parent who wasn't around all the time. And many of us were raised by mums who perhaps were stay-at-home mums, or only worked part-time, or worked school hours, because there often wasn't the choice back then. 

And those of us that grew up in the late 70’s, or the 80’s, there wasn't a whole lot of childcare. And I remember my mum telling me that when she sat down for one of her first jobs, the moment she got engaged, they fired her because they assumed that she was now just going to go and get pregnant, and she was useless to them. So incredible, I guess, how societal attitudes have changed, and yet we've not shifted how we parent. What we, as you said, what we perceive to be a good mum.

Jaclyn Guest

That's right, yeah, so that's the first one. It’s actually just pausing, and saying, “Wait, why am I still accepting this outdated definition?” And you're the one living your life, you're the mother, so you get to decide what that means to you. What does it mean? What kind of a mum do you want to be, without all of those pressures and expectations placed on you? 

Jo Host

And I think it's also really important that we, as you said, put those pressures down. And a big part of my journey has been accepting the type of mother that I am, and everybody's different, and that's great! I am not the sit-down-and-play-Barbies kind of mum. My girls are mostly beyond that, but I'd rather poke my eye out. I'm not the kind who necessarily wanted to sit and bake cookies. I don't like cooking, anyway. So, cooking with somebody that just makes a mess would drive me crazy. 

And I used to force myself into thinking that, “Well, a good mum should want to bake with her kids, and enjoy the mess”, and occasionally, it's worked. But, usually, it just ends up in children whinging. It's not fun. But, I'm also the type of mum that took a six month old overseas for a month. There are not a lot of mums that could do that, and that would enjoy that. I'm the type of mom that likes challenging my kids in different ways. So, we get to go on this beautiful journey of deciding who we are, and what actually matters to us. 

Jaclyn Guest

That's right, exactly that. I've had the same thing in my parenting journey with my son. You know, we tend to compare ourselves, right? To the other mums, and they're doing it like this, so I should be doing it like this. You hear the “should.” That's “mum guilt.” That pertains to where am I kind of weaponizing these external definitions? Yeah, against myself. So, yeah, the antidote is to pause, and stick to your own definition, and be unapologetic about it. 

Jo Host

I love that. Which, I guess, brings us on to number two. And you used a key word here, which we see so often, and that's the word “permission.” Talk us through what really is this second reason around “mum guilt” that we've got to overcome. 

Jaclyn Guest

Yes, so we also experienced “mum guilt.” When we make choices to prioritise ourselves, like, we have to kind of defend it, or justify it. We have this guilt, you know, if we choose something instead of spending an extra hour of quality time with the kids. Or “Oh, it's going to be hard on my partner, because I'm going to be out and gone for half the day, prioritising myself.” So, we have this “mum guilt.” And what that really comes down to is not giving yourself that permission, that you actually get to choose what you want. Like, it almost kind of goes with the first one. 

We internalise that we don't have choices as mums. Like, we are choiceless. There's a mandate, that we must put everyone else first, and there's just no choice. That's it. Like, we are last on the list, and so the antidote is similar to the first one, in the sense that it is pausing and saying, “Do I want to keep accepting that choiceless-ness that comes with being a mother, somehow?” And give myself permission to prioritise myself, to choose what I want, to choose for me, knowing that I can still be that excellent mum, according to my own definition. 

So, it really dovetails beautifully with the first one, and maybe you can even conclude that your definition of being an excellent mum includes prioritising yourself and modelling that to your kids. 

Jo Host

So, even better, right? And there's an emotion that, when we don't give ourselves permission and we put ourselves last, and we think we have no choice, it starts with R, that we tend to sit in all the time, don't we? 

Jaclyn Guest

That's right, “resentment.” And then we feel guilty about the resentment, like, “I shouldn't be resentful.” It's really funny, right? 

Jo Host

Round and round in circles we go. 

Jaclyn Guest

For sure, for sure. So, the antidote to that one is just acknowledging, “I have a birthright to choose, and to to prioritise myself, just like any other human here.” 

Jo Host

Yeah, and I think one of the best things to role model to our kids, is that sometimes, “You know what?” “Mama goes first.” “Mum needs to take care of herself, and sometimes that may have consequences.” Which, I guess, brings us onto number three. So, we've got this piece here, around, we haven't challenged the “perfect mum” stereotype, we haven't made peace, or haven't given ourselves permission to actually own that. We don’t have a choice. which just breeds resentment, and then sometimes, when we make a choice, other people might not like it, yeah. 

Jaclyn Guest

So, we also feel guilty. Oh it's, “Now my kid's upset, because I'm not there to tuck them in at night.” Or, you know, “Now my partner's frustrated, because they're feeling overwhelmed, or whatever, because of the choice I made”, right? And so we guilt ourselves as a way of like this weird atonement. Like, “Oh, you know, I did choose myself, and I probably shouldn't have done that.”

You know, speaking to the first two rules we just talked about, and so, “Now I'm just going to just beat myself up, because that's what I should do.” “I should punish myself, and make myself wrong, and feel bad.” Cause at least then I can atone. That's how I almost justify inconveniencing my kids, or my partner, or whoever it may be. 

So, it's kind of twisted. But, it's what we do because the truth is that we don't just want to be with the discomfort of someone's disappointment, because we make meaning about that. So, the antidote is practising being with like, “Oh yeah, sweetie, I know that you're sad that I wasn't there for bedtime”, and letting them have their feelings, without making it mean you're a bad mum, right? And just be like, “Oh, wow, I can understand why you're disappointed, or that you missed mommy.” “Hmm, what solution can we come up with?” 

So then you start being creative about it, you know. And so you're modelling several things there. Right, you're modelling how to deal with uncomfortable feelings, validating someone's feelings without apologising for your actions, when that's not merited, in that case, right? And you're modelling creating solutions, and modelling that mum can take care of herself. There's lots of beautiful modelling inside of that example.

Jo Host

Yeah and, as you said, I know there's many examples in my own life, where sometimes the kids have to not come first. And I had a recent example this week, when I decided to go for a run. I made that choice, because that was what was best for me for the day, and it meant my daughter had to catch the bus to the station, instead of getting a lift, which meant that she had to get up several minutes earlier.

We're not talking about a massive inconvenience here. But, she was upset with me. And I said to her, “I acknowledge that you're upset, and I know that you would rather me not go for a run, but the best thing for me to do, which is actually the best thing for you, is for me to go for a run, and you can catch the bus.” And she can grumble all she likes, but I simply went for my run, enjoyed it without feeling guilty, because that's for her. 

I know that I'm doing the right thing, because I've given myself permission, because I've redefined what it means to be a “good mum.” And so there was no meaning, she could grumble all she likes, and I’ll still stand there firm in the belief that, “I know I'm a good mum.” And what's fascinating, is the more that you can ground in, “I'm a good whatever good human.” “This is who I want to be”, and she looks at me, and she's like she can't go anywhere with it. 

Jaclyn Guest

That's right.

Jo Host

So, that becomes freeing.  

Jaclyn Guest

Totally, yep. Validating their feelings while also honouring that mum can prioritise herself, and that's not modelled for us. So, we get to go first as women, and this is almost radical, right? But it’s so important. 

Jo Host

And then, I guess, this brings us on to number four, where we start talking about how we often are doing things that aren't really in alignment with who we are, or what we really want. Perhaps because we're doing it, because of things that we should be doing, or that society says, or back to those, you know, what the perfect mom should be doing. Talk to us about this. 

Jaclyn Guest

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So sometimes, we choose to prioritise ourselves, or not. But say the example is that we do prioritise ourselves, right? And then we feel guilty about it, and we can actually acknowledge that there was a value that maybe you didn't honour. So perhaps, let's say you went away for half a day somewhere with your girlfriends, or something. and then you felt guilty. 

And in this example, it might actually not be that you feel bad about the kids, or you're guilting yourself in that context, it's actually that there is a value that maybe you didn't uphold. Like, connecting with your kids before you left, or having a plan to connect with them, or your partner. Like, maybe there wasn't communication, or an agreement for you to honour whatever is important to you. 

So, if it's important for you to have quality time on the day that you are choosing to, you know, have a half day off to go out with your girlfriends, did you communicate that? Or do you forget? Or, you know, whatever might've happened. So, if that feels like it's missing, then you can start to talk to us, and that can come out through feeling guilty. Which, I think, is actually an indicator, a very healthy indicator, so to speak, of what I would actually call “regret.” 

And I think with “regret”, I like to make that distinct from “guilt”, because to me, regret is connected to maybe like sadness, or something more authentic, like “Oh, I'm a little disappointed”, or “I feel a little sad that I didn't set up a plan to connect with my kids before or after”, or whatever the value might be, right? 

And so that's “regret.” If we let ourselves just feel that sadness, because then we can atone. Wait, not atone, but we can restore that relationship. We can say to the kids, “You know, I realised that I have a strong value of spending quality time with you.” “I'm so glad I took time with my girlfriends, but I didn't set up a plan, or spend time with you beforehand, and I wish I had done that, because that's a big value of mine.” And so then we can, you know, restore that bond, and have that communication. 

And I think that happens with regret. We can restore, but when we're guilting ourselves, guilt, to me, is just pure self-flagellation. It's just kind of this weaponised, “I'm bad and wrong” and shaming ourselves. And there's no room for restoration inside of that. You're just bad and wrong, there's nothing you can do to make it better, because you're a “bad mum.” 

But regret, I think, just again back to the piece we were talking about before, about feeling the discomfort. Letting ourselves feel regret without guilting ourselves is a skill. I think we slip into guilt, or collapse into guilt, because feeling the regret is too tender, or too raw, so we'd rather beat ourselves up. Which still sounds twisted and funny, but it's what we do as humans, because we just don't know how to practise being with the tender thing, the more vulnerable thing of regret, of not meeting a value of ours. Does this make sense? 

Jo Host

Yeah, it does. And I think, to be honest, so many women, we all talk about cultivating an emotional home. And that is where we become neurologically addicted to certain emotions, which all have a signature inside of our brains. And so our brain starts to assume that feeling guilty is our natural state. And then, anytime we don't feel guilty, our brain goes, “But you assume that feeling guilty is our natural state.” And then, anytime we don't feel guilty, our brain goes, “But you should be feeling guilty, because you're not feeling guilty”, which is completely twisted. 

But, I know this was one of the big things that I've had to shift in time. I felt guilty for everything. I felt guilty for being late, and then I felt guilty for not being fast enough, and then feeling guilty for not being present enough, and then guilty for my team, but it just infiltrated everything that I did, and it completely robs you of joy. It completely robs you of being in the moment, and it's a muscle that no one has ever told us how to build. It's almost put on this pedestal. “Oh yeah, mum, guilt, comes with the baby.” “Suck it up.” “It's what comes when you're a mother.” But it doesn't have to be this way.

Jaclyn Guest

Right, yeah. I think, again, the antidote is to say, “Oh, there is a value that I didn't honour here.” “I can experience regret, and the tenderness around that without making myself wrong, and I can restore it.” That'd be something really beautiful to model to your kids. 

Jo Host

It would. And this is one thing that we don't really want to pass on to them, is it? We can't imagine passing on to our kids beating themselves up for every single thing they do, and yet we somehow have normalised it. 

Jaclyn Guest

That's right, yeah. We don't want to be like that. We don't want to show that beating up yourself is something normal, or expected. Yeah, I think, again, demonstrating regret and restoration is really powerful. I think that would have actually a huge and bigger implication in the world, if we hadn’t had that modelled to us. 

Jo Host

Yeah, well, if the world is just a mirror, and we're busy beating ourselves up, well then, all we want to do is beat ourselves up. It's easier, almost, to beat somebody else up, because we're beating ourselves up just as much. And so, the world goes round, and this is some of the work that we love doing. It is teaching women how to shift their emotional home, how to access more of that joy, and that presence, and everything that comes in between. So, thank you for joining me today, Jaclyn.

If you are a woman who is feeling guilty all the time, whether it's guilt for something, whether it's “mum guilt”, we really invite you to take a look at our website, and to potentially book a call with us. If you want to find out how to actually stop feeling guilty, how to have this antidote, which are muscles, and even though some women think that it's biologically wired, it is not. 

Jaclyn and I are living proof that you can build that muscle, but you can also have a toolkit, and “mum guilt” can be a thing in your past. So, here's to more joy. If that's something that you want to do, we'll put links below this episode to book a call with us, and find out. Let's get you more joy, let's get you more presence, and enough of the mom guilt. Huh, Jaclyn?

Jaclyn Guest

That's right. And I just want to say, you know, if you looked at the four things that we talked about, and you put it together with just looking at the antidotes, like something you can actually action going forward from this, listening to this podcast is one definition of what being an excellent mum means to you, to give yourself permission to choose, that you have the birthright to choose what feels good for you. You have that birthright. 

Number three, which was practice being with the discomfort of someone's disappointment or frustration with you, when you honour your needs and get curious about if there is a value that perhaps you are overlooking, when you do choose yourself. How can you restore that, and experience the actual regret and tenderness versus, you know, just weaponizing guilt towards yourself? So, that kind of to wrap up those four antidotes, would be really powerful shifts and actions to take going forward. 

Jo Host

Absolutely. As always, we love practical stuff here. We love giving you tangible ways that you can shift. So, Jaclyn, here's to less guilt, more joy, and thank you for joining us on Balance and Beyond. 

OUTRO: Thank you for joining us today on the Balance and Beyond Podcast. We're so glad you carved out this time for yourself. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who might need to hear this today. And if you're feeling extra generous, leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice would mean the world. If you’re keen to dive deeper into our world, visit us at www.balanceinstitute.com to discover more about the toolkit that has helped thousands of women avoid burnout and create a life of balance, and beyond. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on the Balance & Beyond Podcast.